SHOULD LUTHERANS ORDAIN GAYS?

This Friday the Holy Cross Lutheran church in Newmarket, Ontario, will become the first Lutheran church in Canada to ordain a gay man, 45-year-old Lionel Ketola.

However, if tomorrow’s plan goes forward, the congregation could face anything from a verbal warning to expulsion from the national church organization according to Bishop Michael Pryse of the Evangelical Lutheran church of Canada.

While Bishop Pryse has worked to establish full church status for gays, he said many Lutheran congregations simply aren’t ready for such a sweeping social shift: “Most members of our church aren’t going to be happy.”

In the United States two congregations have ordained lesbian pastors who are in stable relationships.

Mr. Ketola says he “feels thrilled and very privileged. I feel excited about the opportunity to offer a public witness that really has the potential to open up safe spaces in the church for queer people.”

Do you agree the Lutheran church should ordain gays who are in relationships?

Today the Supreme Court of California ruled that gay marriage is legal in the state.

19 Comments »

  1. 1
    Joe Agnost Says:

    “Do you agree the Lutheran church should ordain gays who are in relationships?”

    I can’t imagine a more boring subject… and I can’t imagine caring much.

    Religious institutions have had no problem discriminating against people in the past – why stop now? If I was gay and wanted to be a part of a religion that didn’t want me I’d simply find one that did (or smarten up and ditch religion altogether!). There’s a whole buffet of religions out there and most of them differ very little from each other – find one that likes gays! It’s not like it matters WHICH one you choose – they’re ALL wrong anyway! 😉

  2. 2
    Cornelius T. Zen Says:

    Good morrow, all!
    Yes. God is supposed to be all-encompassing in his love, or so we interpret from the teachings of Yeshua bin Yoseph of Nazareth. All of us are supposed to belong to Him. It is not up to any of us to say who is not worthy of any aspect of worship.
    Anyone who presumes to speak for God, and discriminate against anyone else, based on WHATEVER sounds like a good excuse, will have to account for such presumption.
    God either made all of us — or He made none of us. CTZen.

  3. 3
    Paul Costopoulos Says:

    Amen Cornelius

  4. 4
    Heidi Gulatee Says:

    Amen Cornelius!!

  5. 5
    Joe Agnost Says:

    “Anyone who presumes to speak for God, and discriminate against anyone else”

    Well – that rules out just about every religion I can think of then… Can you think of any organized religion that doesn’t claim to speak for god and discriminate against others??

    And the “amen” replies… I guess there’s more of us atheists out there than I thought! Amen-ing this ‘dis’ of organized religion is surely a sign of atheism right? 🙂

  6. 6
    Chimera Says:

    Sounds to me like Bishop Pryse doesn’t believe his own propaganda and press releases. Since when does he have license to say how the people in Lutheran congragations will feel? And if he doesn’t believe they’ll be accepting of gays, why is he publicly promoting just that? Is he looking for opposition for some reason? It seems that he’s disappointed not to get any.

    Maybe I don’t have enough information?

    “Today the Supreme Court of California ruled that gay marriage is legal in the state.”

    W00t!

  7. 7
    dez Says:

    The Catholics do, why not the Lutherans?

  8. 8

    dez:

    So far as I know the Catholic church does not ordain gays who are in active sexual relationships.

  9. 9
    Chimera Says:

    Well, not on purpose, anyway. ;D

  10. 10
    dez Says:

    Oh, you mean OPENLY gay?

    Why not?

  11. 11
    Anton Says:

    We left the ANGLICAN CHURCH when it ordained gays-homosexuals.

    The Bible is specific on the subject of man with a man -woman with a woman ‘laying’ each other. Christians DON’T hate the Person, they hate what they do if still acting out on, participating in man with man-woman with woman sex. It IS the act which is sinful.

  12. 12
    Anton Says:

    expulsion from the national church organization is what ought to occur should they go through with ‘ordaining’….ha…ordain, please-give me a break- Ordain and homosexual in the same sentence. This is just too silly to even talk about. Ordain homosexuals?….what next….

  13. 13
    Chimera Says:

    Anton, it seems to me that if the people who make up the congregation decide to change their minds and their attitudes — about anything the bible says (remember the advice to slaves and masters that used to bolster the attitude that it was perfectly okay for one person to own another?) — than that is up to the congregation.

    Of what, exactly, are you homophobes afraid? Because it is fear that drives you. Biblical quotes (one of which can be found for any occasion that needs “justification”) are only excuses.

  14. 14
    Chimera Says:

    Dunno where that smiley face came from — it was supposed to close the parentheses…

  15. 15
    Cornelius T. Zen Says:

    Good morrow, all!
    Anton: “Ordain homosexuals? What next?” World peace, perhaps? Or would that be too much to ask?
    Re: “organized religion” — the word, “religion” has its roots in the Greek word “religios”, meaning “re-linking” or bringing together. Look up Joseph Campbell sometime. It is actually the pursuit of means to exclude those who will not submit to a given dogma. The Puritans left England, because they were no longer allowed to impose their fanatical dogma on other people there. Ironically, they regarded that as “religious intolerance.” (recognize a redundancy when you see one?) So, they left England, to find a place where they could wear funny clothes, ban Christmas, and, oh, incidentally, kill Indians. Ah, Paradise!
    I have little patience for “religious” people. On the other hand, I hold a world of respect for People of Faith, who walk the talk, who do the works, who practice what is preached, who love without condition or limit, who value life and peace, who understand the brevity of our existence, and who contribute to the quality of our few and precious moments in the world. All they lack… are wings. CTZen

  16. 16
    dez Says:

    You know what would be great?

    If Christians would start practicing tolerance.

    I think the first guy to suggest that got nailed to a cross – oh, but you already know that, right?

  17. 17
    Heidi Gulatee Says:

    Our world probabely would long ago have self destructed if we did not have all these people of real faith that still take care of the lonely and depressed and other sick people. Thanks to the guy that that gave us an exampel and got “punished” on the cross. What our world needs is more of these angels. It is them that give me the courage to live.

  18. 18
    Neither First nor Last Says:

    To: All the Saints in the Lutheran Churches
    From: A Slave in Christ Jesus.
    Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
    I am writing to you on not on my behalf, but in the name of the One who calls us to witness and faithfully serve. I pray that the words I share with you are by Him both righteous and true, and cause no man or woman to stumble. I pray, Dear Lord, that I speak life, and not death to my brethren. Brethren, I write to you in love; even in service, that you may be edified and so that our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ might be glorified.
    Brothers and Sisters, I have heard that among you there has been a council made that has determined that those who profess to follow in the teachings of our Brother in Christ Martin Luther shall now accept as faithful witnesses (clergy) members of the Body who would continue to live in sin rather than repent as is required by our Holy and Sanctified God. This decision made by some has caused a grievous wound in my heart – and having been born and raised in the Lutheran tradition myself; I have been moved to cry out to you all.
    Brothers and Sisters, you know who you are. If you have in your heart at any point felt the condemnation that causes repentance, and cried out “Jesus is Lord!” – then you have in you now the Holy Spirit, and you know what of I speak. As born again Believers, new creations in Christ, you have the very Holy Spirit of our Living God inside of you to bare witness to what I must share with you (II Corinthians 5:17, John 15:26-27, Romans 8:16). Do not deny the conviction of the Holy Spirit, for this alone is the unforgiveable sin (Mark 3:29).
    Martin Luther was a man used by God to bring about a restoration – to save a remnant from the fallen religion of Catholicism in order that a proper Faith in and Love for God might be restored. Martin Luther was moved to act, and sustained throughout his persecution by the Holy Spirit.
    A Catholic once said to Martin Luther, “Where can your religion be found?” Martin Luther, it is said, replied “Where yours cannot nor ever will be. In the Bible.” Martin Luther, you see, read the Word of God – and realized that the Catholic church was nothing short of apostate in its teachings and dealings. That it was utterly corrupt and unable to produce any good fruit amongst the people. Martin Luther knew that the Word of God was Faithful and True (John 1:1, 1:14, Revelation 19:11) – and by the strength granted him by Christ Jesus did he have the courage and conviction to stand for that even while the Pope sought his very head and he was forced to hide. Brothers and Sisters, if you truly follow the teaching of this man, then surely you know that the Word of God IS Faithful and True.
    Our God is a Loving God, Who’s greatest desire is that none should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16). Repentance is the Key. For if you Believe in Jesus Christ, then you ought also to Love Him – for He it was that created you, that comforts you, and that accepted the wages of our sins that we might stand justified before God. Jesus Himself tells us how we are to love Him:
    “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.” John 14:23-24
    There is no question that Love and Obedience are not exclusive matters. After consulting scripture, there can neither be any question that homosexuality is a sin (Lev 18:22-23, Lev 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:9-10, Jude 1:7). Brothers and Sisters, it cannot be denied that we are all sinners, saved by Grace through Faith and not by works, lest anyone may boast – and yet even so we cannot deny that we would not permit any unrepentant practicing sinner to minister to us, when it is they who so obviously need our ministrations!
    Brethren, there are consequences for wilful disobedience. Do you not know that our Lord revealed to us that in that great day, “Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?’ And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:22-23
    See the significance of this Brethren, for the Lord speaks here not to atheists, nor muslims, nor Jews nor Buddhists, nor anyone other than professed Christians – for no other group would call Jesus Lord, nor prophesy in His name. And yet, ultimately, those professing faith had no relationship with Him – and He never knew them.
    Brothers and Sisters, Do not suffer with the faithless in Thyatira – but be overcomers, and keep the words of Our Lord to the End.

    In the Love and Faith of Christ Jesus,
    Neither First nor Last.

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